Run, don’t walk from cheap logo design.
I got a phone call not so long ago from a prospective client asking about having a logo designed. Great, I thought, that’s what I do! Unfortunately they found out that I was way outside of their budget. Now, I get it…even the starting price of what I charge for logos isn’t exactly cheap, but you’d be hard-pressed to find a professionally designed logo for much less than that.
The same is true for all design, but right now I’m focusing on logos because there seems to be a rather recent influx of cheap logo design out there, plus clients who expect to pay next to nothing for their logo. Like, less than $200.
So why aren’t logos $30? Or even $200? What’s so bad about that?
There seems to be a disconnect between what designers know and what everyone else thinks they know when it comes to the reality of logo design, and why it’s not cheap. The reasons are many, but let me just start out by saying us designers aren’t trying to take you for all you’re worth; rather, we know what goes into creating a logo that will last a lifetime. Here’s 10 of those secrets:
1. Believe it or not, designing a logo actually takes work
Professional designers aren’t just “playing around” on their computers all day. Any design we do requires work, and we take our profession very seriously.
Professional designers aren’t just playing around on their computers all day. Click To Tweet
We went to school to learn the principles of good design; we need the necessary skills to properly use design programs like Adobe Illustrator; we devote our days to self-marketing, research, meeting with clients, going over briefs, and giving presentations. As passionate as we are about our work, at the end of the day, it’s still work.
2. We went to school to learn how to do this
Granted, some designers are self-taught, but that’s the exception not the rule. Most of us understood the value in higher education, so we committed four+ years of our lives to learning our trade. Time and effort aside, earning a degree also costs an arm and a leg.
As much as I would love to do my work for dirt cheap or even for free, the fact remains that when I’m done with school I’ll have a bill in the neighborhood of $40,000. I’ll have to pay that back somehow.
In today’s society there is no way around it; in order to have a good job, more or less you’ll need a good education (read: college). It’s well understood in most professions that earning a degree entitles you to higher earnings: your newfound knowledge and skills as a college grad adds value and worth to your work. Graphic designers are no different.
3. The equipment and software we use costs (lots of) money
In the design industry, us designers have to stay atop current technology and software.
And, unfortunately, those things aren’t exactly in the bargain bin. I’d hate to say we pass the expense on to you, but that’s every business. If we charge you less than what it takes for us to stay afloat financially, we’d sink and go out of business.
One of the reasons why a logo ain’t cheap is because the software to make them ain’t cheap. Click To Tweet
Rolled into all those expenses are also the very programs we use to create those beautiful designs. Just to give you a head’s up, our design software is usually around $2,000, and upgrades are about $400. So one of the reasons why a logo ain’t cheap is because the software to make them ain’t cheap.
4. Designing a logo isn’t simple
Much goes into the design process itself.
Part of the reason so much time goes into logo design is because we have to do things like meet with the client, create a design brief, create a proposal, research your company, research your competition, research your audience, brainstorm, generate ideas, seek inspiration, sketch, do roughs, create the actual logo ideas, refine them, show them to you, get feedback, go back and do revisions, finalize the logo design, choose a suitable typeface and color palette…I could go on, but by now you can see that the process of a logo design is quite extensive.
Now before you say, “Well, why don’t you just cut out a couple of steps so you only take 5 hours,” let me tell you that you really can’t. At least you can’t and still get a good logo.
Those cheap “designers” you see on Craigslist or 99designs? They probably just design something off the top of their head without knowing anything about your business, your audience, or your competition.
So it might be a cute design but it won’t have any staying power, and it won’t strengthen your brand. Or they might steal a logo that’s already out there, and you’ll be liable for copyright infringement. Or they could just use some cheap clip art, which looks horrible and is a teeny bit illegal. Fun stuff like that that I’m sure you don’t want any part of.
You know that saying, “you get what you pay for?” Zero difference when it comes to logo design.
5. It takes more than just a couple of hours to design a good logo
I typically spend anywhere from 10-30 hours on every single logo design that I do for a client. See the steps I outlined in step 4 to get a better idea of where that time goes. Now ask yourself how you’d feel if someone offered you $30 for 15 hours of hard work. With all of your experience and skills. And your college degree. And all that expensive software you had to buy. Exactly. I’d be offended too!
It takes more than just a couple of hours to design a good logo. Click To Tweet
This should also go to show why a good logo cannot possibly cost less than $200 dollars: do the math. If someone is selling you a logo for $30, how much time do you think they spent on it?
Certainly no more than a couple of hours. If they spent the time going through the whole process, they would end up making less than $2.00/hour. That’s not even minimum wage. So I can pretty much guarantee, if you’re getting a logo that’s much less than $200, your designer is probably skimping on the process of creating that logo.
6. I didn’t start designing yesterday
Most reasonable people would agree, that the longer you do something—the more of an expert you are—the more value the services you provide have.
For some reason a majority of people view professional designers in a different light. Now I may be a little biased, but that doesn’t seem very fair, does it?
Although it’s a given that I haven’t been in the game nearly as long as some of my fellow designers have—and we’re talking 10, 20, 30+ years—I think the fact that I’ve been doing this for 7 years says something, right? It’s not like I started designing yesterday. Seven years isn’t as much as 20, but it’s experience and I think anyone with several years under their belt deserves some compensation for it.
7. Everything else builds on your logo
Do you have a business card? A company website? Colors? Well, you really can’t have any of these things without first having a logo. The logo is the foundation of everything else your company does visually. It is the cornerstone of your branding and identity. So, obviously, it’s important. You really can’t do anything without a defined logo in place first. That’d be like going through a maze blindfolded. You need to have that cohesive branding ready before you start your venture, not after the fact.
Every single successful business out there uses effective branding to their advantage. Think Apple. Think McDonald’s. Think Target. Their logos, their colors, are everywhere. In fact, it’s statistically proven that the more a company invests into their marketing, the greater their ROI will be.
Like I’ve said before, having a great logo or great design won’t magically make your business any better, but it will make it look better in the eyes of your audience. And that’s what we’re talking about, perceived value. Of course, you have to have the goods and service to back it up.
But when the best thing that can happen with a good logo is your business taking off, and the worst thing that can happen with a bad logo is your business sinking, is there really any question in your mind about what needs to be done?
8. Your logo is the first thing people see
You want to make a good first impression, don’t you? Wrong! You want to make a great first impression! So why risk having someone take one look at your logo, the very face of your company, and cringe?
And there are some cringe-worthy logos out there! Don’t let your business be one of them. I firmly believe that if you take pride in your business, that if you believe in your cause, and are willing to make that initial investment, I can almost guarantee your business will be a success. I say almost, because it’s still possible to have an amazing logo and a horrible product or service that nobody wants. But that’s not you. Right?
9. Your logo will last you many years to come
OK, don’t tell me you want a cheap logo now, because you plan on buying a better logo a few years down the line, when your business is successful.
That’s not a good idea, because what you’re trying to build as a new business is your brand. If you go and change your logo every few years, then you completely defeat the purpose of having a brand.
Everything that people began to associate with your business, via your logo, will disappear and you’ll essentially be starting over from scratch. Besides, what if your crummy cheap logo prevents your company from even taking off in the first place? What then?
What you’re trying to build as a new business is your brand. Click To Tweet
Rebranding is very risky, and must be done carefully. Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails miserably (remember how Gap tried to change their logo? Bad, bad move!). Your best bet is to just do it right the first time. In the end you’ll save not only time, money, and stress, but also retain the favor of your audience.
10. We never “just design a logo”—we build relationships
In order to properly design a good logo, as a designer I need to get in your head. I need to know everything there is to know about your business and your audience—your hopes and fears, your dreams for the company, where you see yourself in 5 years, etc.
I need to know you and your company on a personable level. That takes commitment, time, energy, and effort. So you can see, at least for me, it’s not just a logo design. It’s not just a commodity. It’s an ongoing relationship.
So, what do you think?
Should logos be cheap? Why is it so hard for people to recognize the value of good design?
Sheila Patterson is the owner and Creative Director behind Apex Creative. GCU professor by day, brand identity expert by night, she loves all things related to design. When she's not creating amazing logos and websites, you can find Sheila tormenting her husband and two feline furbabies, catching the latest Game of Thrones episode, or reading a good book.
Naps are nice too.
93 Comments. Leave new
Another fantastic post, I am in the process of putting a new design & resource blog together called 3myk and was wondering if you’d like to be featured as a guest writer sometime. It’s a fair stretch away from completion but I’m just doing a bit of legwork before starting to put everything together?
Regards,
Shaun Preece
Thanks for your comment and for reading! I would be delighted to guest write something. Check your email, I’ll message you!
Shelia,
Good for you! Well said : )
I am a serious interior design enthusiast However I am a drafter. I have argued with people about this very issue. If you are serious about your craft then you should be willing to further your education and obtain the proper credentials. Most people are always looking for the shortest route. Great post!
Allowing others to set our standards for us takes away everything in the work that makes the job worthwhile, for both the designer and (if they but knew it) for the client as well. The integrity of the work matters. Good to see dinosaurs like me are not alone. Keep the faith, and the passion!
TIM
As a designer you must set you standards and benchmark. Your client needs to fully understand that your skill is not a cheap skill that any tom dick and harry can do. and if they want cheap, they can get cheap. but you know what they say, “cheap is expensive”.
Maintain standards as a designer and never compromise your pricing standards for anything. You know the value of your work, stick to it.
Sheila,
This is great. You hit the nail on the head. Hopefully some clients will read this posting…
Tonia: I know, isn’t it sad we have to argue with people about something that should be obvious? That is why I’m seeking to educate (or more likely, re-educate) clients about this very thing, right off the bat!
Tim: As long as there’s a few of us “dinos” out there, I think there’s some hope 🙂 We’re not extinct yet!
Mendi: I like that phrase, “cheap is expensive”, I may just use that 🙂
Thanks to everyone else for reading, you’ve all made my day 🙂
Great article, except one small sentence.
Having more education does not _entitle_ you to higher earnings. Education doesn’t create entitlement, it creates better skills and understanding. Those are tools you use to achieve better qualifications than competitors in your field, giving you better opportunities. Those opportunities MIGHT lead to better earnings that that you have to EARN.
The world is full of college graduates who thought that getting a diploma would cause the world to have to give them everything on a silver plate. Those graduates have jobs that end in “would you like fries with that?” or “can I help you find something in our store?” And deservedly so. They’re lazy, and have a false sense of entitlement.
But it specifically undermines your article because you’re sitting here trying to tell us why you are EARNING that higher fee for logo design, why you have QUALIFICATIONS for those earnings … and you’re trying to dispel the notion of the higher fees being a sense (on the customer’s side) of entitlement on the designer’s part. And then you throw it right in there: you feel entitled to being paid more because you have a degree.
That sentence isn’t just “wrong”, it undermines your thesis. You really should change/get-rid of that line.
Johnkzin: Thanks for your comment. I respectfully disagree: believe it or not, I actually had to EARN my degree as well. It wasn’t handed to me. I am speaking in generalities, but it is well understood in our culture and economy that to even be considered for most professional, well-paying jobs, one must have a degree before they’re even considered. It’s a fact.
It’s also a fact that, on average, people who complete education beyond high school do earn more. This is very well documented, and I think it serves as a point to further my case. It is also just one small point out of many. I think the cost of graphic design should include all considerations of the designer; qualifications, skill, experience, and yes, AND education. I am speaking more to an audience who is naive about what it takes to become a graphic designer; most don’t make the connection that we also had to commit 4+ years of our lives to learning this, that we aren’t just high school drop-outs fooling around on our computers in the basement.
The cases you’re referring to usually end up being people who unfortunately chose to pursue degrees that have no real-world application. But that’s where our education and industries need to be looked at, and really isn’t applicable here. The point remains, that the designers who wisely chose to invest in their careers by earning a degree, can and should expect higher compensation. And the client needs to realize this too. That’s all I’m trying to say.
The points you’re making don’t support the idea of being entitled to higher income. The fact that most people who get a 4 year degree earn more than those who don’t doesn’t equate to “those who get a 4 year degree are _entitled_ to a higher income”. The fact that something might be a statistical correlation, or even a statistical predictor, is no where near the same as being an entitlement.
Being entitled to something means you should get it “just because”. What you’re saying is essentially “I have a diploma, gimme more money.” What I’m saying is, when it comes to higher income, “the diploma gets your foot in the door for a better job, nothing more.”
By using the word “entitled”, you’re basically saying that all a person has to do is get the degree. Sure, they have to earn it, and work hard to get the degree. But you’re saying that’s ALL they have to do. An entitlement implies that they could work hard for the degree, and then rest on their laurels, and never do another day’s hard/honest work, because from then on … the world owes them that high income. That’s what entitlement implies.
That’s not how it works (nor should it be).
I completely agree with everything your saying. I interview on average about 20 candidates every day. Most candidates believe that because they have a degree, MBA etc… they will automatically get the job. Even asking for salaries that don’t match what is on their resumes. You can have all the degrees in the world but if you have an entitled personality, don’t want to work your butt off and expect everything to be handed to you…have a nice day! You will receive higher income when you show your client/employer what you are capable of whether you have a degree or not. Having a degree will get your foot in the door but what else do you have to bring to the table?
I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. WORDS ARE EVERYTHING, MAYBE THERE COULDA BEEN A DIFFERENT WORD CHOICES THEIR.
BUT OVERALL I THINK YALL ARE BOTH ON THE SAME PAGE JUST LOOKING AT IT FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THAT PAGE LOL
DARN AUTO CORRECT… *THERE, NOT THEIR…
Well in that case we’ll just have to agree to disagree. That’s another fact of life, we are all entitled to our own opinion. BTW, I am NOT saying getting a degree is ALL it takes to earn more. Please read the other 9 points I made. The degree, once again, is simply one of many reasons why a designer should be able to expect higher compensation. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thanks again for your thoughts, I appreciate you taking the time to read. All the best
I concur. And although a degree COULD be useful, I concluded that not having one has saved me time and money.
Having skill plays a huge roll in what ever service/medium you offer.
If you’re an expert at your craft then what good is it to spend $40k or more towards a degree, unless it’s specifically a prerequisite for your dreamjob? I’ve sat throughout many conversations with graphic designers who, through introductions, divulge what they do and where they attained their degrees. Many seemed quite surprised that I had no degree to speak of, based off the quality (skill) of my work. When asked where I trained, it was always the same response. Self taught. Passion and drive refined and defined my artistic purpose. Not a framed piece of paper or a magic feather.
Awesome article, I hope some business (money money dudes…. MMDs) and techy humans (more logic + less sense) might mind it and feel the pain of designers.
To me designing is the job of a sensitive human beings, but the worst part of the profession is that as a designer we have to sell all the intangible assets we have (like as: Out of the box idea | Elite sense |superior aesthetics | bla bla bla ….!) to the hardliner business minded (presumed by themselves) over-smart superhumans, most of the times.
These oversmart MMDs always in search of ways to save the cash and to loss the honor and goodwill of the company.
Anyhow thanks a lot to contour the feelings of every design professional.
Kindly also add a point about: all the bain storming discussions we done with the clients, all the f+++++g bizarre comments about the artworks from the client with zero sense of design we tolerate and which cause us tons of humiliation and headache…..and for this we can’t charge $200 😉
Chao
I really like your article Sheila and thanks for being a promoter of “better treatment” for us designers. I completely agree with your article. We should be compensated fairly for our hard work, vision and talent. This profession certainly is not for everybody. But I have also agree with johnkzin, that BA in graphic design does not entitle anyone to charge the clients more. It all depends on how well connected you are, steady work flow, body of work (you don’t seen to have a very big one) and how much your clients are willing to pay for your work. These days something like that is very rare.
What I am getting at is…that you are forgetting to mention in your article is competition. I don’t know how things are in Scottsdale, but here in San Diego it’s fierce. There are 4 design schools in the area, and army of cheap and desperate designers, yes the ones that design $20 logos, $150 websites, all kinds of free website generators, CMS templates for $35, online bidding websites etc, these people have already degraded and downgraded our value and reputation to peanuts. Unfortunately, I hate to say it, but we are a dime a dozen bunch. Our clients know it and take advantage of the economic downturn and are very resourceful in how to trick us into freebies in exchange of a job promise, they don’t want to pay, have ridiculous demands, this could go on. That is one side of this business, the other is competition from oversees like China and India, scary :-).
Yeah, this business is really extra tough and I am worried about the future.
Eva,
thanks for your comments! I think it depends how you word things, I’m not saying a degree entitles us to charge clients more, rather, it should give the person holding the degree the right to expect higher compensation. Maybe it’s just me but I see the difference.
You know, for a while I was worried about cheap “designers” and our work being outsourced overseas too, and I expressed these worries to my mentor. You know what she told me? She told me that those “designers” offering $20 logos etc are not really my competition.
Essentially you and I and anyone else who takes their work seriously should not stoop to that level, that our work should reflect higher craftsmanship. You’re right, perhaps competition isn’t quite as fierce here as on it is on the coast, but there still are people hawking cheap designs all over the place.
There will always be clients who want to pay barely anything, but then there are real clients who know good work when they see it and are willing to pay for it. It’s those people you want to market towards. Forget the cheapos. As one of my favorite authors said, don’t compete on price, because there will always be somebody willing to go out of business sooner than you. So, stick to your guns and hang in there, things will turn around soon!
This was great. You nailed so many points! Thank-you for sharing!!
I too make it clear to clients that I do not create logos for $50 and why.
nice article.. like this
Great article! Here’s another thought. How many times have designers like us created a corporate identity for someone that they used for years in many marketing applications, making them very successful? And these same customers scoff at paying a reasonable rate for something this valuable and enduring. Perhaps designers should be payed royalties as well! :0)
Eddie, that is a great point. Part of what goes into my design costs at least is also the value of the end project: something like a logo is exponentially giving the client back more value over time. That is something all designers (and clients) should consider when quoting different projects. I don’t personally think that charging royalties is the way to go, but I do know top designers for big brands can easily charge 6 figures for the logos they do. Will any of us ever get there someday? We can dream 🙂
I’m thinking about perhaps adding this point in somewhere, perhaps as an 11th point. Although 11 reasons doesn’t sound as good as 10 🙂
How bout 10 reasons and a bonus. (Always under promise and over deliver). 🙂
Sheila, I admire your optimism, it’s about time for things to turn around. I am just having a really bad luck in finding the right clients or contract work, even though, I think my work is better than average. Any tips on finding those good clients and how do you convince them to chose you over the others (cheap designers)
So far we are being perceived like this – I do have a sense of humor too (in any other profession – totally ridiculous) watch this!
http://www.vendorclientvideo.com/
Hi again Eva! (love the video BTW, so true! I am totally re-posting)
I’m sorry to hear you’re still having trouble finding good clients. You know, that is a great topic, next article I write I might focus on that (how to market yourself/find good clients). For now the biggest tips I could leave you with are
1) make sure your work is strong and let your work speak for itself, and
2) when in doubt, raise your prices!
For #1, it’s important to realize where you are in your career. Obviously, when I first started out, I barely had my AAS degree and only had school work to show for it. I was lucky in that I found a pain internship with my church. Want to know how much they paid me starting out? $12/hr. Not horrible, not good, but for where I was at it was perfect. Now my rate is closer to $50/hr, and I’m not even done with my BAS degree yet. But the thing is, I started out small, and built up from there.
This kind of ties in with #2, in that psychology plays a big part in what people are willing to pay. Sometimes by raising your rate, you create the perception that your services MUST be worth more. Kind of sneaky, but think of any semi-luxury brand out there.
The items at Crate & Barrel are not much different from say, Target, but people still pay an arm and a leg to shop there. But before you decide to charge more, make sure you have a strong portfolio to back you up and justify the premium price. But believe me, people will pay it. For more inspiration on pricing design, check out David Airey or Jacob Cass. They are both top-notch designers whom I look up to and gain insight from, and they both expect a premium for their designs. And they get it.
I think people in general have a hard time with middle-of-the-road quality; for many, it’s either black or white. Cheap or expensive. You want to stay as far away from “cheap” as possible, and let people know it too. Kind of sucks but I think that’s the name of the game. I don’t know about you, but I definitely don’t want to be lumped in with the “cheap” crowd!
well said!i think people don’t have a clue what they talk about until they do it themselves,then they will find how hard it is to get it right and give it value.anyone can do a logo but will it be visually successful!?
Shelia, You make some good points in your article, but a lot of what you write seems to stem from the want of money. Because I don’t charge an arm and a leg for my work that means it’s not professional? More designers are self-taught then you think. Do you think self-taught designers don’t spend just as much money for the trade? I beg to differ on that account. We spend money on computers, and personal trainers, we just don’t go to college. We also spend money on personal advertising and meeting with clients. In our society there is a way to pay for your college expenses, but it takes work and starting from the bottom and not expecting to get paid the big bucks just because you have a diploma. Instead of purchasing that high end Mac purchase a PC that you can use the same programs on and spend half the money. You can use the programs for years without having to upgrade. I’ve seen it.
Because I’ve been in the business for so long (over 25 years), it doesn’t take me two and a half days to create a logo. I communicate with my client, do my research and can usually come up with roughs in a few hours. Just because you spend 20 hours minimum for your logos doesn’t mean someone else could not create something just as professional in less time. It depends on your communication with your client, and what they are looking for. You really can create something in a short amount of time and have it be just as professional as if you had spent hours on it. I’ve done it. Don’t discredit the “”designers” you see on Craigslist””. They could be designers who have been in the industry a lot longer than you and can create just as good a piece for a client. They are using avenues for business which every designer should be doing and looking for. Craigslist, Monster.com, Linked in. Any avenue a designer can use to get work should be sought after. You can’t wait for clients to come to you, you have to go to them. Not everyone sees a designer in a different light you mentioned. Every profession has it’s clients that want services for next to nothing. We are no different than a doctor or lawyer.
Don’t expect a huge paycheck with only 4 years of experience. Experience is the key. When you start in this trade or any other trade there is a level of job experience everyone is looking for in regards to the quality of work they want. There are designers who are self-taught that will produce something better than a college graduate because they may have more experience then the graduate. College students just beginning in any field should not expect to get paid the same as someone who has spend 20 years in the field. You have to start small.
Beginning businesses may not be able to pay the higher prices in the beginning, but if you develop a relationship and repore with that company, when it grows and becomes something big, you can grow and become big along with it. As a designer we are to build relationships not by how much we charge for our product, but making sure that product is marketable, regardless of cost.
Rebranding is done more often than you think. Rebranding doesn’t always mean changing the logo. The logo may be the same, but the brand has to change to stay with the times. You as a designer need to rebrand the product but keep the same look of the logo to make the product marketable with the changing times. The same companies you have mentioned have rebranded several times in the products they sell.
It shouldn’t be about money, it should be about making a business grow and prosper. As you stated creating the logo is only a part of it. You build relationships, and experience and the money will come. Don’t be greedy from the get go, your business should be earned not expected. Work with all kinds of businesses, people and budgets and you will go far.
Hi Lora
Thank you for taking the time to read, I really appreciate it. Unfortunately I feel as if you missed the heart of what I am trying to say. I’m not saying charge an arm and a leg simply because we can or should.
It is NOT about the money. It’s about value, respect, and investment. I simply believe way too many designers undervalue the work that they do, which in turn causes clients and the general public to devalue it too. Designers should respect themselves and their work more. I am hardly the only one that thinks this, in fact I’ve come a long way in learning to value my profession more. I’d highly encourage you to check out some top designers who’ve written very similar things, such as Jacob Cass, David Airey, among others. I’m not half as good as these guys are, but they speak for all designers who want to be considered professional. In addition, I’ve personally come across many many experts in this field who think I should actually charge more, not less. Essentially, I believe the price I am asking for my own design is more than fair and I am simply telling fellow designers they should charge fair prices too. I’d be careful about making assumptions about people, because I actually DID start small; but since then I’ve been blessed with opportunity, talent, luck, and great clients.
I am dismayed you got the impression that I said that being self-taught is not legit, on the contrary some extremely talented designers don’t have a formal education (see David Airey, above, one of my favorite designers). My only point, 1 out of 10 points, was that many designers do invest a lot of time and money into learning our trade, thus, it should not be a cheap service. It’s no different than any other specialized service, like electricians or plumbers. They often went to a trade school to learn their profession, and they know how to do something well that we don’t, so we pay them more for it. Why should design any different? I’m sure there’s bargain plumbers out there, but I know I wouldn’t be comfortable using them.
You mentioned the topic of hardware and software. In theory, you are correct. We don’t need high-end Macs in order to operate. But know this; I have worked on a PC platform before. And you know what? After only a year of use, it constantly froze, crashed, or operated extremely slowly. In a word, it heavily decreased production and workflow. I believe if you want to be at the top of your game in this field, having higher-end technology and software is a must. Just like any other profession. I’m sure if you added up the face-value cost of an Mac vs PC, and factored in the time you saved as well as the less expensive OS for the Mac, the two would either even out or the Mac would end up being a better value.
I’m starting to wonder if you actually read this article in its entirety. Because I specifically said, speaking of myself, that I realize 4 years is nowhere near 25 years. Experience does go a long way. That’s great if you can design a logo in 2 hours. But as Paula Scher said, “It took me a few seconds to draw it, but it took me 34 years to learn how to draw it in a few seconds.” So even if you are extremely experienced, I think that experience should be well compensated for. Your design rate should go up, not down, especially as you learn to do what you do more efficiently. I don’t expect a huge paycheck, but I do expect to be able to make a living. That’s not greed. Another good resource on pricing is the Graphic Artists Guild Handbook Pricing and Ethical Guidelines…again, I am hardly the only one who has these views. As far as “designers” on Craigslist are concerned, I must continue to put them in quotation marks. Have you actually seen some of the “designs” they offer? I don’t know about where you live, but locally from what I’ve seen the work they do is done in Microsoft Word using Word Art, at best. It’s bad. Feel free to market where you want, but I personally think designers shouldn’t feel the need to try and compete with those people.
You are right, in the end it’s about building relationships. Which is point #7 I believe. I care very deeply about my clients and their businesses; they have all referred me multiple times because they know how much I care about them and how much effort I put in their business. I’m not trying to explain myself to you, I’m just trying to help you understand. Please, go back and carefully reread this article. Look up other designers and see what their philosophy is on design pricing. It’s a topic we don’t like talking about, but it needs to be. When all’s said and done, design adds value to a company and that value should be reflected somehow. That’s all.
I did read your article in its entirety otherwise I wouldn’t have made notes through the whole piece. And yes you are explaining yourself which is fine. That’s what I was looking for. You are passionate about being a designer which is excellent and now I know you are grounded in wanting the best for your clients and other designers in the field. In reading your article, several times through actually, it just seemed like there were thoughts missing, and now that you have explained those thoughts, it makes perfect sense. Thank you and great job. I hope I read about your successes in the future.
Great comments, but unfortunately, irrelevant – as far as prospective clients go.
The perception out there IS that we’re ‘just playing around’ on the computer, AND that they can get “some whiz kid computer genius” who just LOVES doing this, for next to nothing.
I’m seeing what once was a decent living, turn into a near- minimum wage job, right before my eyes.
@ Matt – As you can read above, I am a bit pessimistic about our prospective clients also. But as Sheila says, it really depends on the quality of the finished product your client is looking for. I can guarantee you that the quality of work the “whiz kid” that cranks out for “close to nothing” will reflect that.
Here is a perfect example – read this:
http://www.logodesignlove.com/cheap-logo-services
I am sure Lora experience and self-taught skills can equal anyone with a degree but I think Lora comments are missing the point. Designers were trained in-house in studios and ad agencies or trained in uni. That meant they had a commitment to design. I get annoyed at the amount of unskilled designers out there without any commitment, understanding of design and artwork skills. Just because you can grab a computer doesn’t mean you can design. Devaluing work by charging next to nothing outs the whole profession in jeopardy.
I have trained as a graphic designer at night school and luckily got a job in a studio while doing this. So I was trained by the studio and college. I then also out myself thru 2 art schools, one p/t and one f/t.
I think my 30 years experience, my training and expertise should be reward like any other professional. I don’t see many doctors or lawyers working for peanuts. As a business I have overheads just like my clients and I could not possibly work for less than the freelance rate I started with in 1985.
Sure, depending on the logo design, some jobs can be done in a couple of hours but most take me a day or 2 of research, drawing and mockup and then final execution.
The problem is that unfortunately internet sites biding services are skewing and devaluing all kinds of businesses. There is a site call Service Seeking who are forcing the price of all trademens and professions to ridiculous pricing wars. It’s not sustainable. I have seen this happen already in one industry, and it decimated it.
People don’t want to pay for anything anymore, they except work to be free, although there want to be rich themselves. I don’t know where this will end!
Excellent points, Red! I like the comparison of expecting doctors to work for peanuts for their level of skill and experience. It’s funny how people have different standards or expectations for different professions.
You are right: everyone wants something for free except when it comes to what they do. Quite the double standard. And no, it’s not sustainable. I’ll be posting an article here (soon, hopefully!) about the un -sustainability of cheap design services found online, along with spec work. Thanks for your comments and for reading!
Excellent points in your article. Unfortunately graphic design has become a service that many people transition into. I see photographers offering graphic design services. I see marketing and PR firms offering it. I see online magazines offering it. I see large box office supplies stores offering it. Worse of all, I see people with little to no experience offering it. They are the ones who were told by their friends and relatives that they were very creative, very talented.
They buy a used computer, get )borrow, liberate, steal, whatever) some free software, take a few courses (either in college or from other sources), and then call themselves a graphic designer. They know nothing about how a logo will print when converted to B&W or when reduced. They know nothing about printing specs and have never been on-press. They care little about stealing art from clip-art providers or from the internet and know nothing about the legal ramifications of breaking copyright law.
What they do know is how to attract the one issue that is most compelling to a client–low price. Add to that their often mistaken belief that they ARE talented )honestly, most are not) they knowingly undercut professional designer prices by a lot and hurt the graphic design business even more. Since they use low cost computers, have not spent decades learning the craft, get free software, and work on the cheap, they price their services so low that no professional designer can compete with them. The work they produce is usually of poor quality, not particularly memorable, certainly not versatile for many mediums and sizes and in general gives the design business a black eye. But, it is cheap and as such will always attract the cheap client who really does not understand the importance of a good logo. Craigslist is littered with thousands of clients looking for the $100 and less logo. Most will get what they pay for.
My wife takes at minimum 20 hours on a logo and the ones she provides are unique to the client, not derivative, often not driven by current company or industry trends, and designed to do one thing–create a unique, memorable brand identity for her clients.
I admire your 4 years training but by graphic design standards, you are a “newbie”. My wife and her peers have over two decades real training working in boutique graphic design firms, advertising agencies, for national publications, etc., hand setting type and then transitioning into typesetting machines and then Macs with pagination software.
With those over two decades you get to understand type, kerning it, sizing it, how to use the negative space in the layout, etc. You learn about how to produce an ad quickly (think about bullpens that are open all night for a campaign) and the importance of knowing press specs. You really do not get that in 4 years and certainly not in the one year most so-called designers have.
Thanks for your comment, you raise some valid points! I think the key to regaining respect and appreciation in our field is to simply educate our clients and create more awareness. I recently was telling my mom what went into creating an effective logo design, and she was amazed at how many steps and how much work it actually takes. So I really believe the problem stems from ignorance. I can see how a start-up business person would realize they need a logo, and not know where to start or what to look for in a designer. I can see how they’d end up on Craig’s List and think those are legit designers who sale $50 logos. It’s up to us to let them know the error in this.
I hope you understand that I realize that I’m relatively new at this field, however, I don’t think that means I don’t know what I’m doing. My first two years I spent as the sole designer for a mega church, and I had to learn very quickly how to work in the real world and how to work with printers. That was definitely a crash course. I’ll happily admit I’m still learning, and I believe I even mentioned in the article that my experience is nowhere near the experience of those with decades under their belt. My only point was that I’m not exactly new to all this either, and I believe that deserves some recognition/compensation. That’s all 🙂
I couldn’t agree with this article more! You are right on every point, including the degree/education part. Technology has made things so much more accessible to people that everyone thinks they know and can do everything. Not only in graphic design but in photography and writing as well. People have access to better cameras for less money, so they assume they can easily be a photographer with no knowledge to back them up. Everyone can publish ebooks, making everything an author even if they lack the skills to write properly. People can get a hold of the adobe programs easier and because they have photoshop..it makes them a designer! I have fixed many projects for people because they went and got themselves cheap labor and everything is done wrong and most of the time in the wrong program.
Having been self employed in the sign business for many years I often told a customer who was reluctant to pay $___ set amount for my design services to think of it this way—your logo is going to be on your building, business card, billboard, phone book listing, etc. Therefore, this design is going to work for you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Now divide the initial cost for your design by that much visibility and tell me how you can NOT afford it??
Designing great work for less opens the door for clients, customers, and employers to seek out the same result from all designers. I agree that logos shouldn’t be offered for dirt cheap but also believe that it’s insulting when an employer offers a wage to designers that I could have made while in high school. More and more designers are taking jobs for next to nothing because they need the experience but once one designer is willing to work for that it forces other designers to bite the bullet as well. I did go to school and invest in the programs needed for tons of medias and am in debt to my neck because of it… but I love what I do. Great design does not come easy. Point is designers should stick to their guns and stay firm on the prices they offer. It is your job as a “Creative” to find ways of persuading others that what you have to offer is worth the price on the tag.
Couldn’t agree more, Mike! Like I’ve been saying all over the place, the key is education. I think most of the blame falls on us as designers. We’re the ones not educating clients and fellow designers on all that design entails, and to not settle for less. Thanks for reading!
Thank you for post and so true…and how it is unfortunately.
All we can do is be patient with prospective clients and educate them on what is involved the best way we can.
Most importantly the value of investment in design service.
This was GREAT! I will definitely use this to try and get people to understand why a great logo isn’t made in 1 hour.
I am new to the industry and heads up is very appreciated. I was wondering what the pricing for such was going for, and yes i have a lot to pay back for student loans, softwares, and computers. Thanks for the article. I am looking forward to more.
Thanks for reading, James, glad I could help! An excellent resource that could help with pricing is http://www.hensher.ca/graphic-design-pricing. Also comes in handy if a client is wondering what to expect.
That’s one great post! I find it very difficult to put prices on my work/designs. I guess you won’t mind I translate your post in dutch and spread it around the Dutch-speaking designer world.
Thank you, I appreciate it! You are more than welcome to do so, if you wouldn’t mind crediting me as the author and linking back to this site.
Sheila
Thx for the list. I won’t feel so discombobulated nx time someone tries and gets cute hoping to get away with a fast one.
Logo design has always taken more time for me, not because I am not experienced but it requires an insight to many factors outside of just looking good. Over the years I have raised my prices for logo design and will continue to do so.
Thanks for reading, Sean! Logo design always takes longer than clients (and even some designers) think. Good for you for being comfortable raising your rates often! I wish more of us had your confidence 🙂
I think this should be the Designer´s Decalogue not just for logos but for the whole Design enviroment.
Congratulations Sheila.
Amen 🙂
Haa you are right. First I bought a logo design for my Education Institute from 99 Designs it was not fine for me. By good luck, I found another logo design firm and it is working fine.
Thanks for reading! Yes, cheap design sites like 99 Designs don’t usually yield good results, for the designer or the client. Glad you found a solution that works
Great post. Very informative. There are a lot good points mentioned that I would have never thought about.
Thanks!
Hi, I just started being as freelancer in this field. I am afraid if i set it high I lose the competition, plus, I’m still new, people might not trust me. But if I set it low, that’s it, that’s what I get, it will be hard to change the price in the future. Any advice?
Hi Adam, thanks for reading! That’s a tricky one. While it’s good to stay competitive, you also should charge what you feel your work is worth. But then again, just starting out, you don’t have much to bargain with. I know when I started out, I charged a fraction of what I do now; it’s not that hard to raise your prices over time, especially as you get new clients. Start small, but have big goals. Hope that helps.
Great article and, unfortunately, still relevant! Given that t’s been over 4 years since you posted this, is there anything you’d add or amend to these 10? Thanks!
Great question. While these are timeless reasons for logo design prices, I may add something along the lines of: designers are always seeking continued education, which costs money (I know I’m always going to conferences, workshops, courses, etc). Also as designers get more experience, typically they would get better. Better work commands higher prices IMO. I’d have to think about it some more, but it sounds like a follow up article might be in the works 😉 Thanks for reading!
Here again you keep talking about the money you spend on being a designer. When you do what you love, you don’t care about how much money you invest on it. The money you are investing to become a better designer is relevant only to you, the customer has nothing to do with it. Do you want a customer to pay you for the money and time that you invested or for the passion that you have for what you do? Do you base your pricing to the customer according to how much you needed to invest to be a designer? I thought that you liked being a designer and that that was the reason for you to spend all that time and money, and if you did do it for the passion that you feel for it, then why you want to get that money back? We usually want our money back when we didn’t like something..not when we love it.
I’m not attacking you, I think that you should not concentrate on explaining why you charge what you charge but more in explaining that you charge what you charge cause you offer more than just a service, you offer a relationship with what you love to do. The people doing “cheap” logos are also needed for the ones, like me, who don’t need that passion, but just the skills to sit in front of the computer and deliver.
The difference between a “cheap” designer and you should be that you offer a crafted work, like a hand written book or a self-written and copossed song, when a cheap designer can offer a computer typed book or a song that was written and composed by others. One better than the other one? No. Just different services, but both can offer similar things to the public.
The way some designers complain about cheap designers is like having a Celine Dion or Barbra Streisand trying to explain why they should not get a Justin Bieber album.
Thanks for reading. I’m not going to reply to all your objections, but it comes down to this: time is money. You would be surprised at how much time and effort go into making even a “simple” logo or website. BTW it’s usually only ever designers who get asked to do things for very cheap or even free; you never see this with other professions. I work hard, and I’m sure other professional designers work hard too. A logo is more than just a mark; it’s part of your brand and should be seen as an investment as it will last 5-10+ years. You get what you pay for. I hope you find someone who is willing to do what you ask for and for how cheap you want it; it is a free market after all. I’m sure you can appreciate wanting to do the thing you love, but also make a decent living doing it. Sorry, but designers aren’t running a charity.
Your article is informative and makes some valid points, but when you said “…it’s usually only ever designers who get asked to do things for very cheap or even free; you never see this with other professions.” You lost me.
This is not true at all. As a jewelry designer, I get questioned by people who don’t have a clue why my sterling silver and gemstone jewelry costs more than crap costume jewelry made in China, or why a gold/diamond ring repair costs so much. As a photographer, people always question pricing because everyone with a decent camera fancies themselves a pro and also undercharge, i.e. $5 for an 8x 10″ print–in what world?? It seems like a vast majority of people attempts to low ball every product and service under the sun. It is certainly not exclusive to the design world.
Hi Min, thanks for reading. Perhaps I should have been more nuanced; you’re right, a lot of creatives get the shaft, and I still believe it’s a problem mostly creative professionals have to deal with. But when you look at other professions (doctors, lawyers, dentists, counselors, etc), you really don’t find this type of thing. I have never, ever heard of anyone going to their dentist, asking for a crown, and saying they will only pay for it after they’ve tried some crowns from a few other dentists. Just doesn’t happen.
I’m trying to build a Logo for Luxury SUV-Airport Transportation, to various destinations, offering Choices between the different sized Lincoln SUV’s. Can You help with that?
Hello Nathan, I just sent you an email reply.
I’ve been looking for a designer for the logo for my new web. This is a market I do not control nor have a lot of knowledge about.
My partner asked me how much should we pay for a logo and honestly I didn’t have a clue.
Right now we are learning how much money and time it takes to create a website, we didn’t know it was gonna be so much money nor so much time.
At the same time we are experiencing the charges from lawyers, tax advisers, accountants and so on.
Everything seems overpriced, but is it really because we don’t know the field?
The thing is that prices vary a lot. Lawyers go from $100 to $1000+ per hour, same as tax advisors, the website design can go from $5k to $1M (absurd?). So now we came across the issue of the price for the logo.
Like in any other industry, the professional offering his service will add up things to the price to make it seem like he’s offering a lot, but there are times when that’s not needed.
We know exactly what we want and how we want it, we do our own market research (it’s our company we’re building), we have a clear picture of what we want to create. So, on our search for a logo designer for example, we saw a lot of the designers explaining that the reason for their pricing (since we don’t know why they charge what they charge) is not only for the design itself. Many of them say that they have to do a little research on our company, on our market, that they have to meet with us, make a presentation, etc. But, what if we don’t need any of that? We don’t need the creativity, we just need someone who can use the programs to design what we want faster than us, that’s it. So, if we tell a designer exactly what we want, very clearly, and all he or she has to do is design it, then all the reasons for his pricing do not apply to us.
I understand that if a designer needs to do extra work, outside of the sitting in front of his computer and design the requested logo, he should charge extra for that, but that should not be the price for the “design” of the logo itself. The design of the logo is only in front of the computer when all the rest is provided by the customer. (like in our case, we don’t want suggestions nor investigations on what’s best for our company logo, we know what we want, we already investigated, we already talked about it, we just don’t know how to bring it to life)
Some designers also talk about how much they needed to invest into their studies to get their degree or how much they have to spend on material or programs… Well, that’s the investment you do for doing something that you’re supposed to love. For us it doesn’t matter how much experience the designer has or not, we have seen all over the world in all of the industries that talent has nothing to do with experience. The one who needs experiences might be cause he has no the talent or passion for it since the begginnig.
So I don’t think that how much a designer had to spend in time and money to get to where he is, should affect the pricing of his work. They should charge for what they think their art or passion to do what they love to do is worth. If you spend a lot of money to get your degree or to get the programs that you have, well, don’t you love what you do? Wouldn’t you spend all of that even if you didn’t have any customers? If you expect to get that money back somehow is because you do care about money and you do this for money and not for the passion for it. When you do it for your passion for it, people can see it and they apreciate it paying for it.
Reading this post, and seeing how you talk about the money you invested in your diploma on the early points that you make, makes me wonder if you got your diploma to fulfill one of your passions or just to earn money.
This is just my opinion. The way I see things we should do the things we love to do, so the money that we put into them has no value in itself, but it has the value on what learning the matter does for our dreams. I’m passionate about the website that I am creating now, how much money I will put into it will not matter to me once I see it done cause all the value will be in my gratification and satisfaction from seeing my accomplishment.
With this I want to say that you can charge as much as you want for your “service”, if people see it as high or low, let it be cause they see or don’t see your passion and not because of your explanation on why you charge what you charge, you would not even talk about those who don’t like your pricing, the ones that don’t like it are gonna be the ones that are not looking for someone with your level of passion for what you think you can offer, nothing more. The ones who go with you will see your passion, and your passion is beyond your price for the “service”… If you can show it.
This is a hard topic, putting price to the job that one does is hard sometimes, but only when we try to explain it to the ones who don’t see it.
How much can a doctor charge? Well, if that doctor saves my life I would pay him forever and again. How much would you pay for a Celine Dion CD? Young people won’t spend a dime on it but I would pay $100 for it, even if she asks for $10, cause I see her passion.
That’s a excellent point. A graphic designer is not necessarily a marketing expert. If you have a client who needs research/development, marketing etc, he should be looking for a PR firm who would have a graphic artist on board.
Great article. Has made me think of upping my prices!
Thanks! Most designers (including me) are probably undercharging. When in doubt, raise your prices 😉
I like your article. What do you think would be a fair or average rate for a person or a company to redesign a current logo.. Keeping the same concept but with cleaning graphics and imagery? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this matter. Thanks.
Thanks for reading! IMO, if it’s just cleaning up a current logo (and they have the vector file), then I would probably charge hourly. But if it’s much more than that or even a slight redesign, I would treat it as a new logo project, and that would be more in the $500+ range. You have to keep in mind the value you’re bringing to the company; they’ll be using that logo for many years, so don’t undervalue yourself.
Agreed. Let’s add in a factor real quick.. What if the logo work was done as a thank you gift, then what? $50-$75 per hour of work?
I really can’t say, you’ll have to figure out what you’re comfortable with. For me personally, if I’m doing design as a gift, then it’s a gift (pro bono/free). If I charge them then I price it normally, maybe offering a small discount. It’s up to you
Creativity speaking; i could kiss you… I think this post is as timeless as a great logo itself… Good job!!!
*hugs*!
Good for you! Continue to educate people. So very many people do not understand or truly value graphic creation.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed! 🙂
Thank you. Very good reasons. Many people don’t understand all the work that actually goes into the process. Your article lists them.
You’re welcome, thanks for reading! 🙂
Thank you for a very clear, concise and well written piece on graphic design. People seem to think we can just “throw something together” when we are already swamped with work to begin with. Thank you for writing this detailed article!
Glad you enjoyed! Yep, our work is often taken for granted, hence this article 🙂
A logo represents a brand so there should not be any mistakes during the design. And the most important part is creating a unique idea for a specific brand, it’s not like you can just put together a quick design. I totally agree with you, as the creative thinking and skills involved in designing the perfect logo, it should not cost less than $200.
Thanks for reading, glad you enjoyed!
This is a great post although it is one sided. The upfront expense anyone has to take to position themselves to run a professional business is not justification nor a factor in fair pricing. Think about it, when you visit a salon do you care about the cost the owner invested in their education, the cost for the material and supplies? Those overhead costs are irrelevant to the consumer. When you visit a food establishment do you care about back end or the front end. While you take the time to justify pricing, you need to invest time in a business class as a next step. Education, software etc. is just the beginning.
Actually it is. That’s just business economics, every single business passes along any overhead, costs of running, etc onto customers. Do you honestly think the price you pay for something is the price that the provider paid? LOL
I think now in 2016 it should be ’10 Reasons Why a Logo Should Never Cost Less Than $600′
LOL right?!
Thank you for the post Sheila, I hope that every future customer would read this before choosing a designer
Excellent article! I’ve recently been asked about the cost of a logo and, being relatively new to the professional side of the design world I had no idea what is a reasonable price. Now I do. Thank you for this article. I would like to reference it in future endeavors should I receive kickback on costs.
What a clever article! Thank you, Sheila! I will quote you! It really makes me sad and mad seeing many “designers” offering logos for $5, $10, $35, $175…
I have learned the hard way in my 11 years of experience and freelancing..
How about when clients are really picky and don’t like the concepts? How about refunds or cancellations?
THANK YOU FOR THIS ARTICLE! MUCH NEEDED.
I JUST HAD A MEETING WITH A CLIENT TODAY AND I DID A LOGO FOR THEM. THE PRICE POINT WAS $1,000 BUT THEN I DISCOUNTED THEM TO $600 (1ST TIME CLIENT BREAK PLUS THEY WERE FRIENDS). THEY SAID THAT WAS WAY OUT OF THEIR BUDGET AND WAS COMPARING THE PRICE TO A PREVIOUS LOGO THEY GOT FROM SOME OTHER GUY A WHILE BACK, THAT THEY ONLY PAID $70 FOR… IN LIGHT OF THIS, I OFFERED TO THEM THAT THEY CAN PAY OVER TIME THE $600 BUT THEY STILL WASN’T TRYING TO PLAY BALL… MIND YOU THE WORK WAS DONE ALREADY! I ALREADY DID THE LOGO TO THEIR SPECIFIC LIKING AND THEY LOVE IT! I TOLD THEM IN THE BEGINNING “HEY, Y’ALL LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD AND WHATS IN YOU BUDGET AND I CAN WORK WITH Y’ALL”… THEY NEVER GOT BACK TO ME WITH ANYTHING BUT SINCE THEY WERE FRIENDS I JUST DID THE WORK FOR THEM. LATER ON DOWN THE ROAD WHEN THEY WANNA COLLECT (TODAY), THEY WANTED TO KNOW THE PRICE & I ASKED THEM WHAT THEY WAS WORKING WITH BUT THEY JUST WANTED ME TO TELL THEM WHAT IT WAS GONNA COST THEM. SO I GAVE THEM THE BUSINESS AND NOW THEY LOOKING LIKE I’M TRIPPING IN MY PRICING TO THEM LOL… SMH
WHAT DO I DO NOW? ANYBODY CAN REPLY LOL. AND PLEASE DON’T BE “THAT GUY/ GIRL” TALKING CRAZY :). THANK YOU
Thank you for clearing up my misconceptions. Before reading this, having a limited knowlege about how this works, I was looking for the lowest price I could get. This article was a real eye opener.
I went to a design school and majored in marketing, so I would say I am pretty aware/ knowledgeable person. However it was not until you broke down the math, “…they would end up making less than $2.00/hour. That’s not even minimum wage.”, did it make complete sense. I have been insulting those people I have been vetting.